Turning California into a Swing State

Supporters of a 2008 Obama candidacy credit his ability to "change the map". No more traditional patterns of Red and Blue as we've seen since 1992, but an inversion of the electoral college from sea to shining sea. While there are plenty of blue states that Obama could lose were he the nominee (Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Massachusetts), the most devastating blow to his candidacy could come in California. Obama could win Iowa, Missouri, Colorado, Montana, Louisiana, North Carolina and Virginia and every Kerry state but California, and he would still lose the presidency. And against McCain, it's a very real possibility.

In 2004, Kerry carried California 54-44. CNN exit polls at the time showed Kerry losing whites, but carrying blacks 4:1 and Hispanics, Asians and "Other" 2:1. Meanwhile, in Arizona, John McCain clobbered his democratic rival. Among whites, McCain got about 27% of the Kerry voters, but among Latinos, McCain did substantially better, winning about 41% of the Kerry voters. McCain's crossover appeal among Latinos was thus about 1.5 times his crossover appeal among whites. Over in Illinois, where Kerry was clobbering Bush, Obama was getting about 40% of the white Bush voters, but only about 25% of the Latino Bush voters. Thus, his crossover appeal among Latinos was only about 60% of his crossover appeal among whites. Taking the Arizona and Illinois results together, it would appear that McCain has about 2.5 times the crossover appeal among Latinos as does Obama.

In 2008 in California, McCain's job will be to win over those Kerry voters. Based on the 2004 Arizona and Illinois results, if McCain wins 5% of the white 2004 Kerry voters, he could potentially win 12.5% of the Latino 2004 Kerry voters. Let's be charitable and say the rate is somewhat less than that, and he only wins 10% of those 2004 Latino voters.

Meanwhile, in 2006, Arnold Schwarzeneggar clobbered Phil Angelides. Among the most fascinating demographic trends was the extent to which Schwarzeneggar captured the Asian-American vote. Schwarzeneggar captured almost 45% of the Asian 2004 Kerry voters, winning 62% of this demographic. Lost in the publicity about Obama's failures to capture the Latino vote in California on Super Tuesday was his even more crushing and overwhelming defeat among Asian-American voters.

If McCain captures 5% of the white Kerry vote, you'd see McCain winning among whites 56-44 (Bush won 51-47). This would translate into a 58-42 win for Obama among Latinos, which is slightly less than Angelides' 56-39 victory in 2006 and still better than the 56-44 nationwide breakdown for Kerry in 2004. Using the 2006 gubernatorial election as a guide, McCain could conceivably win Asian-Americans 57-43, a result that is still worse than Schwarzeneggar's performance. Let's assume that Kerry's 81-18 victory among Blacks becomes a 90-10 triumph. Let "Other" break 50-50, about midway between the 2004 and 2006 California results.

The 2008 California result will then come down to turnout. Let's say turnout among Whites is the 67%, one point less than 2006, with turnout among blacks increasing from 5% to 7% and decreasing among Latinos from 19% to 18% and among Asians from 6% to 5%. Other remains at 3%.

Where does this bring us? A 50-50 split with a slight edge to McCain. Turning California from safe blue into a swing state is the price to pay for an Obama nomination. A loss would be even more disastrous.


Display:


Do you have even a single post CA primary GE poll (none / 0)

to show some sort of evidence to support your predicate that Obama won't beat McCain handily in CA in the general election? I doubt that you do.

Interestingly, Obama beats McCain handily in both NH and NV in post primary/caucus polls taken there. He does much better than HRC in both of those states even though she won the popular vote in the primary/caucus events there.

Moral of the story: just because HRC beats Obama in a given primary doesn't mean that she would do better than Obama in the general election vs McCain.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:12:07 PM EST

Re: Do you have even a single post CA primary GE p (none / 0)

Readers, please see my NH, NV, CO polls comment below (I meant to post it as a reply but mistakenly posted as a separate comment). Thanks.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'd bet that he loses both NH and NV (none / 0)

I don't care all that much about what the polls say right now.  His bubble is going to burst before now and November and legions of his supporters are going to feel like they woke up with a hangover.


by lombard on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:24:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The baggage that the Clintons have is mountainous (none / 0)

Her negatives are upwards of 45% and are hardened as rock. She's unable to penetrate those negatives and they only stand to get far far worse when the GOP opens up the can of endless worms on the Clintons' money and sex scandals (which have been kept in deep freeze storage by the GOP to be thawed and re-released just in time for the general election, should we make the mistake of nominating Clinton).


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:29:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't agree that they are hard as a rock (none / 0)

But, this isn't about Clinton vs. Obama.  I've resigned myself to the likelihood that the dreamy elements of the Democratic electorate (aided and abetted by GOP friendly interlopers in Democratic primaries) will deny the nomination to Clinton.

This is about Obama vs. McCain.  If Obama wins this general election, then everything that I have learned about presidential politics in the last 30 years has been superceded and we really are in a new world.  Personally, I am too conservative to believe that and my conservative mentality has usually turned out to be a better predictor of American voting behavior than the mentalities of my more utopian liberal friends.


by lombard on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:44:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't agree that they are hard as a rock (none / 0)

Everything you know from the last 30 years will have changed?  If we elect an African-American as president, everything I know about the last 230 years of political history will have changed . . .


I just flipped off President George, I'm going to Disneyland
by alvernon on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:17:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

well, (none / 0)

If we elect an African-American or a woman as president, everything I know about the last 230 years of political history will have changed.

Either is a good glass ceiling to break :)


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:38:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

I someone bothers to look at this before the super delegates vote.


I believe in Hillary
by sonofdonkeykong on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:14:18 PM EST

NH, NV (and CO) post-primary/caucus GE polls (none / 0)


    In Colorado, a Bush state in both 2000 and 2004, Obama leads McCain by seven points, while Clinton trails McCain by fourteen points.

   In New Hampshire, which Bush won in 2000, Obama currently leads McCain by thirteen points, while Clinton leads him by only two points.

Today a new poll from Rasmussen was released in Nevada, which voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004, showing Obama leading McCain by twelve points, while Clinton loses to McCain by nine points.
Link


i.e. even though he lost the primary in NH and the caucus in NV (in pop. vote):
  1. in NH, Obama is doing 11% (13-2) points better than HRC (vs JM) and
  2. in NV, Obama is doing better by 21% (=12-(-9)) points better than HRC (vs JM)

In CO where he won, he's doing 21% ( 7-(-14)) points better than HRC.

The message is loud and clear.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:20:24 PM EST

IA post-caucus GE Poll: (none / 0)


SUSA Iowa GE matchup poll:
Date: 1/7/08

vs McCain:

HRC 44%, McCain 48%
HRC breakdown:
R:7% D:71% I:35%

Obama 55%, McCain 38%
Obama breakdown:

R:18% D:81% I:48%



Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:37:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Iowa is emotionally invested in Obama (none / 0)

Because they gave him his great launch.

Just like MSNBC.

I think he will win Iowa but a victory there isn't inevitable.


by lombard on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:11:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

CNN gives plenty of pro-Clinton bias (none / 0)

In fact, I attribute her surge b/w the FL beauty contest and Feb'5th mostly to CNN's biases.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:39:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree that CA is in play if Obama is nominee (none / 0)

And I think you give persuasive evidence of how that could happen.  People forget that prior to 1992, CA was a GOP leaning state in presidential elections.

I agree that the three NE states you mention would also be in play with PA having the highest probability of being lost, but MA not as unlikely as most people probably think.  A Survey USA GE poll of MA about a month ago showed him losing to McCain in that state while Hillary won it in her matchup. A recent Quinnipiac poll of PA shows Clinton winning but Obama losing (barely) in a matchup in that state.

"Obama could win Iowa, Missouri, Colorado, Montana, Louisiana, North Carolina and Virginia"

Beyond Iowa and Colorado, I don't see any other Obama victories in that group.  Virginia is a possibility but his number there were obviously inflated by GOP oriented voters interloping in the  Democratic primary.  Plus, I'd like to know how close the African American participation in these recent primaries has been to general election levels.  If the interlopers leave in November, a minority of the Clinton supporters cross to the other side,  and the AA participation doesn't increase much, he won't win Virginia (or Louisiana or NC).

His win in Missouri was razor sharp and he only won in 3 places (SL city, SL county, core KC).  Doesn't bode that that well for the GE.  Again, how close his key groups were to general election levels of participation is an important factor in evaluating his chances.


by lombard on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:21:10 PM EST

Please show evidence, instead of conjectures. (none / 0)

I am willing to bet that Obama will poll better than HRC in California vs McCain in the next GE poll taken there, based on the GE polling trends we're seeing everywhere, and in NH, NV, CO I posted above (even though Obama lost NH and NV to HRC in the primary).


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

polls are conjectures (none / 0)

And these polls don't reflect the inevitable crashing of Obama's wave.


by lombard on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:26:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: polls are conjectures (none / 0)

And all the Obama voters saying they won't vote for hillary just to screw with the GE polls too.
99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: polls are conjectures (2.00 / 1)

Do you have any basis in fact for this or are you pulling stuff out of your *?

I don't mind when someone tries to argue a point when they have data to support their position. But aren't we supposed to be the "reality based" party?


by kjblair2 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:37:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please show evidence, instead of conjectures. (none / 0)

In California, Hillary clearly carried three important Democratic demographic groups, by over 60%.

http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/pri maries/results/epolls/#CADEM

Asian, Pacific Islander, Native American:
Clinton 62%     Obama 32%

http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/pri maries/results/epolls/#CADEM

Lesbian and Gay:
Clinton 63%     Obama 29%

http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/pri maries/results/epolls/#CADEM

Latino:

Clinton: 67%    Obama 32%

This is evidence that not having Hillary on the ticket puts California in play. There are twice as many Asian voters as black, six times as many Latinos and the gay vote is only slightly smaller than the black vote. These are three groups that have Obama problems.


by DaleA on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:10:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And yet, (none / 0)

Clinton only leads McCain 45%-43% in California, while Obama leads him 47%-40%, apparently.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:41:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree that CA is in play if Obama is nominee (none / 0)

Yes, Pennsylvania is much more dire than California, but California would be a death sentence. Iowa and Colorado don't come close to offsetting Pennslvania and making up the gap.
99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:27:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree that CA is in play if Obama is nominee (none / 0)

He's not losing California.  Pennsylvania is a possibility, but I think Hillary could just as easily lose it against McCain.  Obama could carry Colorado, Nevada, North Carolina, and Virginia, four states that Clinton would probably not even contest.  This is a total of 42 EV's that more than make up for Pennsylvania, which is rapidly losing population.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:31:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

PA primary hasn't taken place, i.e. Obama hasn't (none / 0)

yet campaigned in any real fashion in PA, which makes all the difference.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:34:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wake up, you dreaming liberal (none / 0)

Do you not understand that Obama's feverish rallies and swooning supporters make more conservative minded voters want to puke?

PA is loaded with more conservative minded, older Democrats.  They have television sets.  They've seen Obama.  They don't like what they see.


by lombard on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:02:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please show me evidence, instead of narratives. (none / 0)


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:42:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You'll have all the evidence you need (none / 0)

in November.


by lombard on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

then pls spare the narratives until November. (none / 0)


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:49:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There's no way he takes North Carolina (none / 0)

In the most recent poll, even Edwards was losing to McCain in NC, and Obama was losing to almost everyone, even Mitt Romney:

John McCain would be the strongest nominee for President in North Carolina, leading match ups with all three Democratic hopefuls. But Democrats would do pretty well against any of the rest of the possible Republicans, as long as their nominee is not Barack Obama.

Obama's weak performance is mostly the result of doing badly among voters of his own party. Hillary Clinton gets 72-75% of the Democratic vote in her four match ups, while John Edwards gets 68-73%. Obama, on the other hand, gets the support of just 59-66% of Democrats. A meaningful number of North Carolina Democrats aren't sure they'll vote for Obama if he's the nominee.


by Shawn on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:54:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's no way he takes North Carolina (2.00 / 0)

Same problem down here in GA. Obama gets 2/3 of the party while Hillary gets 3/4.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:12:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Has the NC primary taken place yet? (none / 0)

Which means, Obama hasn't done an iota of campaigning in NC. He does well AFTER campaigning. Probably (milder versions of) racial prejudices carried by some people stand to be changed once he campaigns. That's why he's beating McCain in places like IA, CO, NV, etc.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:44:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree that CA is in play if Obama is nominee (none / 0)

Look, Obama didn't win in Virginia because of GOP interlopers. The number of people in either party that try and cast "strategic" votes in the other party's primary is extremely small. The vast majority of Republicans and independents who voted for Obama in Virginia (and elsewhere) voted because they wanted to vote for him, not as some underhanded plot to set up a potential match in November.

Where do you think the term "Reagan Democrats" came from? As hard as it is to believe, there are members of the other party that don't always vote a party line ticket.

And with respect to Missouri, he didn't just win in two areas. Check the county (or even better the precinct) level results.


by kjblair2 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:33:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree that CA is in play if Obama is nominee (none / 0)

Exactly, any Republicans that are voting for Obama now are doing so because they really like him, not because they think he is the easier general election opponent.  Far from it.  There is a reason why Republicans are starting to panic about the way the Democratic primary has been trending.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:35:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree that CA is in play if Obama is nominee (none / 0)

Yowee. Obama's support in Missiouri was much narrower than I thought. http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state .php?year=2008&fips=29&f=0&o ff=0&elect=1
99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:37:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am a Reagan Democrat (twice) (none / 0)

And Obama is no Reagan.

Almost 30% of the Virginia primary was non-Democrats.  Obama would have won VA without them but not at the level he did.

These right leaning voters are not Obama supporters.    Mostly they are Clinton haters who have no more reason to vote in the GOP primary.  They will not be voting for him in the Fall.


by lombard on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, he won 3 local areas in Missouri (none / 0)


by lombard on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:55:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (2.00 / 1)

Anyone who does not believe that Obama will  carry California easily is smoking crack.  Just look at the latest field poll here http://www.dcpoliticalreport.com/polls08 .htm

Clinton only leads McCain 45%-43% in California, while Obama leads him 47%-40%.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:27:28 PM EST

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

The field poll was way off for the Dem primary. Use survey USA if you want to make a point.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:53:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Polls can, and do, change (none / 0)

Three months ago, Clinton looked inevitable.

This guy is headed for a crash.  The beginning of the push back is just starting.  Probably will be too little too late to deny him the nomination but by November, many Democrats will be saying to themselves, "What were we thinking?"


by lombard on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 03:54:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Polls can, and do, change (none / 0)

Thats what many Democrats were saying after they elected Bill Clinton in 1993 and especially when he lost us Congress in 1994.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Haven't you said you're voting McCain (none / 0)

if Hillary is the nominee?


by Shawn on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:05:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Haven't you said you're voting McCain (none / 0)

I have and I will.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:07:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Great (2.00 / 1)

Then quit pretending to be concerned about the Democratic party's electoral chances.


by Shawn on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:08:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great (none / 0)

I am concerned about Congressional and local races.  We had to give up control of Congress and all kinds of local offices the last time we had a Clinton in the White House.  I am working hard to make sure no Clinton gets into the White House again.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:17:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great (none / 0)

Oh the burden of proof that this will happen again or can be attributed to the first Clinton is still lacking.


by ejintx on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:36:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great (none / 0)

toddwell, join the GOP, you both share the same mission obviously.


by Scope441 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 07:29:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am an Latina from CA- Mccain ! (none / 0)

Is someone going to sit down and tell Obama this? Yes, he can win the nomination but he will lose the general election in a landslide. Does he want that?


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:17:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well said, Demlady4life (none / 0)

I agree that they are arguing out of emotion and with ignorance but I would disagree that they are really using past elections as a guide.  They may be referring to past events in a superficial way but they really don't have much in the way of in-depth analysis.

In fact, one of the more striking aspects of the Obama movement is its lack of political memory.  Most of these people are either too young to really remember the past, not too young but were disinterested in the past, old enough and involved enough to know better but preferring willful amnesia because they're just enjoying the heady emotion too much.


by lombard on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am an Latina from CA- Mccain ! (none / 0)

Obama will easily win CA in the general. In the primary he's been running against a very strong candidate. Yes Hillary Clinton is a very strong candidate with the powerful message of the 'first female president', she's been able to hold on to a sizable chunk of the female vote.
McCain will have no such advantage over Obama.
Obama vs McCain is an election based in clear contract in ways that tremendously favor Obama.
It wont be easy but he'll win.
by joachim on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:29:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am an Latina from CA- Mccain ! (none / 0)

But you were convinced that latinos in California would vote just like latinos in Iowa. How'd that work out? DemLady knows a lot more about the CA latino vote than you do.


by LakersFan on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 06:45:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am an Latina from CA- Mccain ! (none / 0)

Wow, you make it sound like Californians are a bunch of racist pigs.


I just flipped off President George, I'm going to Disneyland
by alvernon on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 05:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (2.00 / 1)

Thanks for saying this Dem4life. I know a lot of Latino men who served in the military, got an education, live a good life who really respect McCain. He is the only Republican they would vote for. Hillary must be on the ticket to save California.


by DaleA on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:22:59 PM EST

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

That's McCain's greatest strength - he's so moderate that he's acceptable to most people who don't like Obama.  He just needs to grip far-right and he'll be formidable.


by ejintx on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

I believe we have a better chance of losing Oregon and Washington before California, but I always thought there was no chance that Gray Davis would go and get replaced by Arnold.

Currently, I'm most worried about Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Oregon with Connecticut and California somewhere in the back of my mind.


by ejintx on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:34:30 PM EST

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

Clinton puts Oregon and Washington in great Jeopardy.  http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollRepo rtEmail.aspx?g=1b3063b5-f7d7-4900-8bf3-c 2cbc6a0295f

Obama wins Washington 55%-38% while McCain ties Clinton.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:49:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

Seriously?  You're trying to show me polls in February before we even have a candidate?  Now Toddwell, that's kind of ridiculous this far out.


by ejintx on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 05:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

Let me tell you, Hillary Clinton is known by 100% of the voting population. She has unmoveable negatives and a base of about 48% of the country that will never vote for her under any circumstance.  If Hillary is not winning now, she will never win.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 05:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

You don't think Obama has negatives - just wait until the prestigious title of "Most Liberal Senator" hits the market.  Boy howdy, that'll clinch it.  I can also hardly wait to see who this man picks as a VP candidate, because he'll need a moderate with experience and last I checked, most of them endorsed Clinton.  I did hear that Ned Lamont's not doing anything though.


by ejintx on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 10:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a (none / 0)

Let me tell you, Hillary Clinton is known by 100% of the voting population. She has unmoveable negatives and a base of about 48% of the country that will never vote for her under any circumstance.  If Hillary is not winning now, she will never win.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 05:08:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (2.00 / 1)

Clinton puts Oregon and Washington in great Jeopardy.  http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollRepo rtEmail.aspx?g=1b3063b5-f7d7-4900-8bf3-c 2cbc6a0295f

Obama wins Washington 55%-38% while McCain ties Clinton.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:49:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

Polls show he's winning over McCain by a larger margin than HRC is.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:45:32 PM EST

Re: (none / 0)

McCain should pick a Latino running mate and pretty much make it clear this could be the first Latino President right there beside him. Even though he is blah how about Mel Martinez


by rossinatl on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:46:32 PM EST

Re:Meathead Mel isn't really that popular (none / 0)

in Florida. Plus, he is not eligible to be VP since he was born in Cuba and is a naturalized citizen.


by gomer on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 10:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

The good thing about McCain is that he probably will help the downticket Dems against Obama. I'd imagine that people will come out to vote for McCain and then vote Dem down ticket. What do you think?


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:50:22 PM EST

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

There is a good chance of that.  Many McCain supporters I know are people that want a divided government and will vote Democratic for Congress.  This is a win/win for the party.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:52:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

reality check (2.00 / 1)

actual votes in California on 2/5:

Obama  - 1,901,405

McCain  - 1,097,856


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 05:09:34 PM EST

Re: Immigration & Race -PREJUDICE! (none / 0)

If Obama has a Latino problem, Hillary has the same problem with African Americans.  If she gets the nomination, there is a good chance that many of these African Americans will not even bother voting because their candidate had the nomination snatched away from him.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 05:43:30 PM EST

Re: Immigration & (none / 0)

The reason is that there is probably no way that Clinton overtakes Obama in pledged delagates.  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 06:02:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

Id also like to wonder why you think I am a liability to the party?  


by Toddwell on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 06:02:55 PM EST

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

you are a liability because if clinton does win the nomination, you are filling people's heads with this bullshit talk of her snatching the win.  we need a UNIFIED party and this type of talk will divide the party.  blacks will back clinton because of what the clintons did for their community in the 90s.  but making these types of comments is borderline racist and you are playing the race card to turn off blacks to clintons.  this is exactly what the republicans are hoping for and a sure way of destroying or chance of winning in the general.


by Scope441 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 07:46:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

As a lifelong California resident who lived through the Deukmejian/Reagan/Bush/Wilson years, no way will it even be close regardless of who wins the Democratic nomination.


by Drummond on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 07:25:55 PM EST

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

My wife & my in laws are from California.
My father in law was a fundraiser for Jerry Brown.
He is wealthy Jewish businessman ( now retired)& a big supporter of Sen. Feinstein.
He was for Edwards before John dropped out.

Both my in-laws predict that McCain will win California if Obama is the democratic candidate in November.
They also point out to me that CA statewide races are getting tougher & tougher. White voters who vote Republican have increased in the last several years. With Obama as the candidate, expect a further reduction in white support for democrats. This is why the Republican Governor has won statewide office twice now by landslide margins.

They always say that Sen. Barbara Boxer will have a rough re-election this time.
But their reason for the conclusion is based on the very weak support by hispanics & asians. My father in law said that it will not be mathematically possible for obama to carry Cali without massive support from hispanics and asians.
He said once Obama is the nominee, you will start seeing hispanic democrats of Mccain & asian democrats for Mccain across the state.  

Obama will have so many headaches in the electoral winner take all against Mcattack.

i would not be surprised at all if he does much worst than john kerry. he is so weak in all the large electoral states. PA,OH,NJ,CA,MA,MI,MO.
what a potential nightmare

when people doubt you because of lack of experience combined with some racism, no speech can change that. no running mate can solve that.


by labanman on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 07:56:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Turning California into a Swing State (none / 0)

Kerry and Gore both blew their Republicans out of the water.  Boxer may be vulnerable simply because Schwarzenegger is popular.  They've been writing her political epitaph every election and she always wins handily.

When the military industry shut down in Orange County, and high tech voters moved in north and south, and once the Hispanic vote asserted itself, nobody but a RINO like Schwarzenegger with extra-political appeal (who has also faced two very weak candidates) will beat the Democrat.

And I personally know several Republicans who intend to vote for Obama if he's nominated, though only one of them voted for Bush last time around.


by Drummond on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 08:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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